So I was wondering how would you build it heavier?

Thanks Lou for the great information.

is it possible to get  swingweight adjusted post use? i have a custom set of 710 AP2's in DGSL300's, they swingweight at d1 which i am finding to light. is it possible to get them sweightweighted to d3?

lou please do yourself a favour and read about swing weight vs moi by tom wishon who is one of the top club fitters

and technical advisors to the pga getting swingweight right the way you state is distorts the overall weight of the club

and change club lengt and moi through the set  this is a very technical issue.  

Those numbers are facts. I have actually weighed golf clubs. I've also constructed a set of irons (Snake Eyes Q3I 5-SW and 600W lob wedge), two fairway woods (Toski Target T-6 7 and 9), and a couple hybrids (Q3A 38 and Q4A 39). I also have a set of Lynx Black Cat irons I had the lie angles set. I did a lot of experimenting with golf clubs. I've also did my own reshafting on a fairway wood (I have an Adams 9 wood, now in my nephew's golf bag, with a TT Lite XL steel shaft; I have a SQ 5/26 in my bag and hit it about 5 yards farther and hit both pretty consistent).

I'm not going to disagree with you about basing a set of clubs on swingweight. I recently sold my Q3I irons and the individual went out and shot the best game of golf he ever played (+3 at National City). The 5-7 irons were spaced 1/2 inch, the 7-8-9 were spaced 1/4 inch and the lie angles were spaced 1/2 degree. The 5-9 irons had 43 gram grips and the wedges had 52 gram grips. The 5-8 irons were C8 swingweight, the 9 and PW were D1 and the SW was D5.

Another fact: most golfers couldn't detect a difference of 2-3 swingweight points. I do the best I can on making my clubs fit and hit properly given the limited amount of funds I have available (don't have $1000 for a brand new set of irons or $500 for the latest driver nor another $500 for a "360 degree fitting").

The decision to go Titleist vs Ping recently was based on results from a launch monitor. The DCIs hit dead straight (the lie board verified to set them back to spec). When I bought my Vokeys, I went into to the store armed with what works for me (had the 54-11 bent to 55 and the lie angle 64.5 and had the 58 and 62 lie angles bent to 65). I have a set of Eye 2 irons (6-PW) that I may eventually reshaft myself. I don't really trust some of the repair facilities to do a reshaft because they often don't trim the tip.

I don't play a bad game of golf, either (I shoot in the mid 80s on a regulation course and close to par on an exec course); my only real shortcomings had been the middle game (the 5 and 6 irons; however the 5H is changing that because I took it out on the golf course yesterday and hit the green on a 175 yard par 3 very first shot) and putting (my Achilles heel had been 6-10 ft putts and changing putters, along with a fit, has helped that).

My bunker game is better than most (just have to work on the wet and hard ones more). The only thing now is getting the nuances down with the DCI irons.

As far as distance.... I would say mine is average (240 for a driver, 200 for a 3 wood, 185 for a 7 wood, 170 for the 5H, 155 for the 6, etc). I don't see a problem breaking 80 by the end of the year. I also tend to experiment on the golf course once in a while.

For instance, putting my persimmon 5 and 10 wood and 34H in the bag in place of the 7 wood thru 6 iron; I shot a 42 for 9 holes at Riverwalk Mission one time). Another time I went to National City (par 34 2200 yards) in 2009 with a 5 wood, 28-32-39 hybrids, PW-SW-LW and shot 3 over par.

I recently went to Tecolote Canyon with driver, 7 wood, persimmon 10 wood and 34H, 8-XW (Eye 2 before having lie angle flattened to yellow dot) and had 10 pars in 13 holes (when you pay for 9, you play 1-7 and 13-18); the only reason I had bogeys on 3 holes was because I missed the green with my 7 wood by about 5 yards and hit over the green on two holes with my 34.

I did watch that video as you suggested and there is some good info. Also, check out some of the videos of Bronson at Revolution Golf (they also now have Golf Channel's Jim McClean on their staff). Pretty familiar with swingweight tape. When I started playing again in 2006, I went through quite a bit of it. First thing was I had a set of 3DX (4-6 iron) hybrids and they were an inch too long for my swing. The end result was that I ended up reshafting them to True Temper Lite XL. I also had some G10s that I put some tape on to bring the swingweight to D2 and this is when I found out that changing the grip from a standard rubber type to Winn Excel RF did the same thing. Also had an experience with titanium powder. In my experiment with woods in 2007, I cut anTight Lies wood by 1" (Adams are a bit long anyway) and the clubfitter at Golfsmith put some in to restore the feel. Lastly, reshafted a driver my dad gave me (Cobra X Speed) from ProForce AT stiff to Grafalloy (firm tip) because the trajectory was too high. Also found out my ideal driver length was 45".

I do have to admit that I got off on a tangent the first two posts. There is also a website called www.golfspyder.com and it has standard fitting charts; the disconnect is the irons are spaced by 1 degree vs the way Titleist and TM do theirs (1 degree from the 5 iron up and 1/2 degree from the 5 iron down). When I did the lie angle adjustment with the Lynx Black Cats, I had to bend the 5 iron 2 deg upright, the 6 1.5 deg upright, the 7 1 degree upright and the 8 1/2 deg upright to have them meet Titleist specs - by golly I was able to nail a 5 iron! (something I hadn't been able to do since 2006); these clubs were not touched between 2008 and early this year and I managed to shoot +2 (at the same course I played Friday) despite being shorter than I was used to with the Snake Eyes.

Lou I think you are missing the point. Changing grips does affect the swingweight no dispute. the issue is about MOI. Most professional Club fitters using the latest technology available look at all the factors when it comes to custom fitting. all the normal stuff like lie engles lofts length etc. However with the fitting labs the process has changes and there are a lot more that is done if they do a proper fitting. once the player and the fitter have agreed on the objectives such as, I want a lower ball flight, the yardage gap between irons needs to be 15 yrds, I need more foregiveness on the irons etc, the fitter will do a launch monitor, video etc to measure clubspeed, ballspeed, launch angle, spin and measure carry on a specific iron. they will then play with different options untill the get to meet the objectives with 1 specific iron as close as possible. a good fitter will then build you one club such as a 6 iron, he will then test your performance on that iron for weight, (MOI or swingweight) etc until the player feel 100% happy with the set up. the fiier with then measure the final MOI weight of the club or your referance swingweight. I use my set as an example. My 6 iron MP 62 is standard length 1 degree upright, I play the KBS C Typre S flex shaft with MOI weighting of 2895 in swingweight D3. I have a Golfpride New Decade grip with 3 wraps of tape. The grip was not selected to effect the swingweight as the issue is that you can pick a lightweight grip but then add 3 layers of tape to fit your hand size. the fitter then sort through the shaft to frequency match all the shafts to the same stiffness throughout the set. when he assembles the set he will build from 4 iron to PW with the same MOI weighting. the effect on swingweight is that the 4 iron is D2 and the PW E1. This looks heavy but the issue with MOI is that each club swingfeel is the same and applies the same MOI at impact. Logic is that a 3 iron D2 and 9iron D2 swang at the same tempo will not apply the same MOI. The effect of MOI is a more consistant ball strike and more consistant distance gap. The realitity is that the retail trade cannot do this process for each golfer as it is time consuming and require specialist knowledge and expensive technology. I have always played of +/- 5/6 handicap and is not someone who change equipment often. My previous set of MP 60 where custom fit using "old" methods and they where fine. when I bought the MP 62's 2 years ago I went through this fitting process, I recently changed shafts from KBS Tour to the KBS CTypre, my iron play improved a great deal and at age 51 now play of a 2 handicap. We play a very difficult course, the Course where Trevor Immelman whon the SA Open that forms part of the European Tour. The course have also hosted the World Cup of Golf. the course was designed by Gary Player. It is fun to play around with clubs but if you want the best results, I prefer to let the experts help.

Like yourself, I seldom have changed clubs over the years. I had a set of X31 Staff 2-PW stiff shaft irons between 1979 and 2007 (I handed them down to my son-in-law). I had the same persimmon woods (Toski Target 3 and 4 woods stiff shaft) between 1984 and 2006. I carried a Haig Ultra Dual Wedge between 1972-2006. I also didn't play much golf between 1977 and 2006 (virtually none between 1993 and 2006 and I didn't touch a club at all between 2003-2005). One odd thing was that I somehow got taller in 2005. I was measured at 6'1" (I had been 5'11 3/4" since HS) - better posture. I threw my lower back out in 2005 after a session at the range when visiting my Dad. Also had sore back problems if overdoing it at the range. The bottom line is that I had been playing with ill fitting golf clubs for a long time (I compensated for standard lie irons with a flatter swing plane and the result was I pulled my woods and hybrids; I went to a more upright stance in late 2008 - woods and hybrids started going straight and I started having problems with short irons; the "band aid" was to use a 38H in place of the 7 and 8 irons, use a 36" 9 iron and lengthen the wedges to 35.5" and I started hitting everything normally). When I constructed the Snake Eyes Q3I 5-SW and 600W LW irons in 2009, I built them with TT Lite XL regular shafts and standard grips (I discovered I liked this shaft when experimenting with some 3DX hybrids in 2006-2007). I had some help with zeroing them in by Jesse at Fairway Golf. I found out thru research that I was supposed to be 1 degree upright (the Ping static fitting showed "yellow dot" also). I played with the Q3I irons up until early this year and the set SW actually worked better than quite a few name brand types (I also had been using a Vokey 60-07 and 64-07 since last year). I recently acquired a set of DCI irons and had Jesse do lie angle adjustments using the lie board. The only tweak needed was to flatten the 4 iron 1/2 degree (it was pulling a little). Another thing that recently helped my putting is I had a putter fitting done and the length was 35" and lie angle was 2 deg upright. 6-10 ft putts became just about automatic. When I picked out the 5H, I used a launch monitor to compare a handful of them. What came out of this "experimenting" is I collected all the data I need for my setup. This helps in the event I eventually decide to buy new clubs. I also have everything zeroed in and stay down the middle on the golf course. Oh yeah... I pulled the 58-12 (returned it to the store and go enough store credit for my next project - buying the parts and having the heads pulled for a reshaft of my Eye 2 irons; putting my fave shafts and grips on them) and the GW. Now my wedge setup is P (47), 54-11 (bent to 55-12) and 62-07.

The biggest experiment has been finding the right driver since 2006 - have to remember that I didn't use a driver for 34 years because I hit a 3 wood much farther (my record was 325 yd with a laminated Spalding alum shaft in 1973; I had a rep in the caddyshack about outdriving most of the men at the Country Club). #2 has been the "right 3 wood" because most of of them I either hit too high or fade. THE driver that I have had for a year now (and I am staying with it until it breaks) is a 2007 Burner Draw HT loft M flex 45" (supposedly senior flex and 13 deg loft - I think it really is R flex because the previous owner cut the shaft and put on a Winn Excel RF oversize grip). I hit it 240 down the middle and have hit it 270 a couple times (it actually gets a much lower trajectory than a 10.5 deg neutral driver and I tee it maybe 1 1/2"). I use a driver on every long hole now (unless it is a short par 4 with a tight fairway and then I use my 3 or 7). A recent trip to a demo day proved that it actually outdoes an R11 driver so I might as well save my $400 for better things. Along with it I have had a 2007 Burner 7 wood of the same model and that is my navigational stick; bottom line is I put the ball on the dance floor on the long par 3s just about every time and nail it down the middle on the fairway. I actually hit it 225 on a tee shot recently (I usually get 185). Of course it has the Excel RF midsize grip. My 3 wood is an R7 with 70 gram Reax mid-tip (and Excel RF grip) - pretty heavy club. Straight down the middle. The Sumo SQ 5/26 is a recent addition - I was averaging pretty close to 120 mph ball speed and the launch monitor had a couple that went close to 200 with most at 170-175. Same results at driving range. On the dance floor on a 175 yd par 3 very first time on the course. Super easy to hit. I also have 3 persimmon clubs I bought from Louisville Golf last year (Niblick Vanguard 5/21 wood and Even Stripe 10/28.5 wood and HL3 34 hybrid). They all have TT Lite r flex shafts and I put Excel RF midsize grips on them. They all come in at D4. I used the 34H when I couldn't hit the 6 or 7 that well and could hit it 160 yards. First time out with the Niblicks I shot 42 at Riverwalk Mission (that is with a double bogey on #1, a water ball on #3 and a botched 3rd shot on #9). Even TW occasionally plays golf in the offseason with persimmons (there is a line at Louisville called "TW"). My setup is pretty streamlined. driver-3-7 woods and 5H. 15 yard distance gap between clubs from 3W-6 iron. Wonderful thing called choking down to cover the inbetweens. 6-PW irons (10 yard gap between irons), 54-11, 62-07. I think breaking 80 on a regulation course or breaking par on an exec course is going to come pretty soon. Ok... got off on a tangent about club setup. I just found about shaft frequency and launch monitors a month ago. My Eye 2 8 iron (which has a DG X shaft on it) was getting the same distance as my DCI 8 iron with R300 shaft (and getting 2 yards more than my Eye 2 7 iron with KT-M stiff). Had Jesse measure shaft freq and the Eye 2 8 iron was 345. The launch monitor told a different story... The 7 iron was getting expected distance (150 yd). The 8 iron was averaging 122 yards and I was all over the place. The DCI 8 iron was showing expected distance (135 yard) with 6 deg higher launch angle and 13 mph more ball speed (117 mph). My fave Facebook/allexperts.com teaching pro recommended staying with the DCIs and recent golf games have been good. Sometimes when it comes to reshafting or assembly, the club repair personnel at retail outlets don't do it properly (for instance, trimming the tip; when I had my Dad's driver reshafted, I told the repair person EXACTLY how much to trim the tip). I have them do simple things like lie/loft or shaft extensions. My go to person for club repairs works at a local "mom and pop" golf store (Jesse) and will give a golf tip at the same time. I'm slowly learning about the fine details of clubfitting (things like "MOI fitting" are new to me; I have been going by what feels best and what is comfortable for stance). A lot of golfers are ignorant about this kind of thing. They go out and drop $2000 on a brand new set of TM clubs and still play bad golf. I hit a high shot with my irons now (and they hit the green solid). The woods and hybrids have a moderate trajectory.