Darryl,

Your post reminds me of a common saying that I heard Gary McCord mention about a hundred years ago. " Paralysis by analysis". With all of the info you received from all of the instructors, maybe you just have too many thoughts going through your mind. At 56 yrs old, maybe your body is just changing with age. I'm 71+yrs old and I know that I don't play the same as I did 10 years ago. I did have shoulder surgery three years ago and I know that I lost some yardage so I don't play the same length of tees as I used to. My advice to you would be to just enjoy the game that you obviously love. Concentrate on tempo and the good rotation you mentioned. If your GIR has gone down, focus on the short game. Remember that a 4 is 4. It doesn't matter if it's a GIR and two putts or a chip and a one putt. Good luck and just relax.

Mark F

The simplest suggestion is to just own your swing. Pure contact at every distance beats longer shots that go in every direction.

I had to get from pure hacker to get to sweeper. My striking is still improving. The 2 things that are making a difference is golf-centric exercises and Orange Whip. The former increases rotation through core and hips (worked w/ a TPI certified instructor) and the whip helps with weight transfer and tempo. I get some stretching in daily and an hour workout 2-3 days a week. Then enjoying the ride in spite of the results.

Wasn't it Arnie himself who said "Swing your swing"? Maybe try playing with some feel as opposed to think...I wish you luck in finding your strengths/keys to improve your game. You've got the talent and desire so just do it!

First - quick swing tip: at address focus on the front tip of the ball (the side closest to the target) hover your club ever so slightly at address then take your swing. I use this trick when hitting out of fairway bunkers where you absolutely must hit the ball first and it promotes a downward strike after impact. Keeping your weight on the left side can also help with the short irons. Second - play YOUR game with whatever you bring to the course, if contact isnt what you like, but its consistent and playable then go with it. Good luck!

Thanks we will give it our best shot.....

Thank you everyone for all the sound advice & support. The group I normally play with don't work on their games and usually I end up on top after each round. So I might look to play against stronger opponents to help with focus next year.

I think clearing my mind and relaxing will go far, I have started re-owning my swing the last few 4 rounds and not worrying about a steeper approach, but it feels so good when I do hit ball first & it flies further.

I work my short game to death & use different games while doing it, just wanting to bring the train into the station in better shape instead of having to bail to keep it on the tracks.

Thanks again to everyone on TT & I'll put these things in motion to get things back on track.

Everyone have a safe Holiday Season


DM

Have you tried different irons? They might reinvigorate your game...

Might do a fitting in 2020. I got fitted for my 716 AP1's thru a Titleist professional back in late 2016. We went to a different shaft DG S300 to a XP90 Regular at that time. Could need a change again

DM

Thats kind what makes golf cool, the quest to always be better. Theres always something we wish we could do better. I believe you can hit your irons the way you want man! Its all about matching up what you do with the right set up and process. Maybe you dont need to have a specific instructor, maybe you do.. but dont stop on your quest!

What did Arnie say? Swing your swing. No matter how hard we try we will never be perfect.

Some of the time we just have to get out of our own way ( mentally ). Hope it all works out for you.

Yeah, that's a tough one. Sucks that you've spent that much time and money and have not gotten results. Personally, when I was starting to get obsessed with this game, I tried a similar thing and lessons didn't for me either.

I built a home simulator, took video and started finding tips for things I saw online and would just keep going tip to tip until something made sense and worked for me. My problem is that even though I see what I do, it's tough finding a tip that helps you correct it and I've found different sources for different things that work for me.

A couple things to try out... First off,

If you want one single tip or drill for ballstriking that allows you to swing your own swing and helps you hit the ball properly: Put down two alignment sticks and make a channel just slightly wider than your club and put the ball in the middle. Hit balls that way and your body will figure it out. Start with short shots if you need to and don't care about where the ball goes at first. Learn to not hit the alignment sticks.

Next:

TPI has some great online tips and I have found a lot on there that have really helped me. mytpi.com/improve-my-game

Golf Digest Schools has a cool new thing they launched, it's like $100 a year. You can watch a decent number of cool things/drills/lessons, but you can also submit a video of your swing. I haven't tried that part, but worth a shot.
www.golfdigest.com/schools

Top Speed Golf. The guy that runs this, you can find some videos on YT, Clay Ballard. He puts out some good stuff. Lots of good things on his pay site, including an online course that I think you may like called the Ball Striking Masterclass.
https://topspeedgolf.com/

Hope any of that helps!

Ben

B.A. Thanks for those tips & ideas. I've wrote them down and will check into them

DM

A lot of sound advice here. I got into golf late and being in the industry, I had to work really hard to become a compentent golfer quickly. I had lessons on a bi-weekly basis and went to the range 3x/week+ for a good 2 years.

I become a scratch golfer on the range and a 7 index on the course. I struggled to lower the course handicap, and similar to you, I started seeing other instructors and going nuts on Youtube to try and find any solution to improve. My handicap actually got worse and I firmly believe "paralysis by analysis" kicked in as I started posting some rounds in the 100s.

Since then, I've completely changed my approach. All my practice is spent on a local par 3 course or shortgame area. Instead of my primary focus being thoughts and feels to achieve a good looking swing on video, I'm completely focused on how the golf ball is reacting out on the course. Learning to troubleshoot my misses on the par-3 course is a skill that nicely transitions to championship courses as well.

Ever since I shifted away from range practice, I've yet to shoot above and 83. Practice is more enjoyable and playing is too. I'm sure I'll have a couple of bad rounds and go back to being a headcase at some point, but golf hasn't been this enjoyable for me in a very long time.

Best of luck!

Thanks for the advice, I'll give it a try

I'm with Allen here!
90% of my practice is spent with a shag bag of prov1's and a good short game area that will challenge me.
I usually get some range time in but not too much...pounding ball after ball gets boring for me. Also RANGE balls suck and don't provide accurate feedback. Part of that 90% is putting too...play games with your friends and enemies. Keep it loose and fun!

Cheers,
Dr. K

I agree, the range is the only place you can hit a fade & draw all in the same shot.. Lol.

I usually spend more time on the practice greens chipping & putting which is why I haven't hit a 20 hdcp yet. Shot 94 with 29 putts

Everyones swing is different, just play your own way and the way you feel most comfortable

If I remember correctly, I was the same age when the same thing were happening to me- I lost my swing and ultimately my game. It went on for a couple of years. In addition to it, I was having back issues. Then I met a teacher who taught me how to play from a position and it changed everything and even surpassed what I've done prior. Right from the beginning as we started working, I loved and believed in what we're working on. It took me about a year which was much longer than he and I had expected, but that was because I was playing more at times when I should have been working on the lesson. I'm just saying that it takes a certain belief and conviction to make things work (in my case it was). My step dad was a PGA pro who made everything from golf in his lifetime- great guy and a great teach, but it took a different way and approach for me to take me back where I'm at and better and I'm still playing golf where I wouldn't have been able to continue had I done the same thing I had before.

I like what Dwayne N had to say, "Some of the time we just have to get out of our own way ( mentally ). Hope it all works out for you."

I had a guy like that about 9 years ago who just knew exactly what I needed to do. He now has his own golf business but no longer has time to teach golf. So that has hurt some over the past 5 years to not have his assistance anymore. Once in awhile I can ring him up and he'll make suggestions but never in person.

Thanks
DM

Darryl,there's a line in the movie "The Legend of Bagger Vance" when Will Smith looks at a struggling Matt Damon and to paraphrase he says something like "We all have our own authentic swing; all you have to do is go out and find it".After spending time and money on instruction,you've found your swing Darryl; you're a sweeper! You've tried to be more of a digger, tried to hit the back of the ball, tried not hitting the ground first, all to no avail, and yet you seem to be happy with your iron play. Personally, I'd take that to the bank. You know your golf swing, know what you're capable and not capable of doing. At 56, it looks like you've resigned yourself to go with what you've got,regardless of the time and effort put in to try and change what sounds like a pretty solid swing to begin with.Thanks for sharing your thoughts with your fellow TT brethren.

If I were a betting man, I'd say your confidence will go up, and your scores will go down. Good Luck.

Thanks Mike,
Content but always searching is how I would describe it. I am confident with my irons and swing as you said it's just those unpleasant shots... lol

Thanks again

DM

Like Mike and some others have said, you're a sweeper and just go with that. One thing I'd consider is the type of irons you're playing. Loft and the clubs sole design will have an impact on how the club interacts with the turf. On one extreme is Tigers irons with no, or almost no bounce. Compare those to my wife's Lady Pings that have a very wide sole plate that just slides the irons through everything, even sand.

I would think the AP1's would have a sole that matches your game. I wonder what the new T series, 200 or 300 would have to offer you?

Darryl,

Funny thing, this game of golf. Always a challenge calming the mind and simply allowing ourselves to, as others have quoted, swing our swing. The mind tells us we should be able to play better and we work hard to accomplish that goal. The mind also whispers to us that we are Superman and CAN achieve consistent, miraculous shots. Those whispers lead to bogey, double bogey golf! Quiet the mind and play the shots you KNOW you can make. If striking down on the ball is truly your goal, continue to work on it. However, what the mind may not be reminding us of is that, although the "secret is in the dirt", at times that steep angle of attack when hitting down on the back of the ball may elicit wrist pain, or forearm pain, back pain, or even left shoulder pain. Is it possible this pain, or the anticipation of pain or further injury, inhibits our ability to accomplish our goals? Perhaps. Either way, find what works for you. If a sweeper, be the best darned sweeper you can be!

Thanks, a mind whispering is a double edge sword at times. I always say when playing. There is a reason I have a day job......

DM

I am a self taught golfer and a late bloomer. Started playing in 1985 when I moved to SC. Finally realized that work was not everything and that there were are lot of courses in Charleston. Played slow pitch softball at that time in league and on travel team and suddenly realized that the two just did not go hand in hand, but could shoot in the 90's and high 80's. Am 73 now and have been playing with a teaching pro and he has not tried to change me only improve on my swing, by developing a slower tempo and getting my swing on a better plane. We having been working together for about two years and he is the only one I have worked with and he has definitely helped me. When I play regularly and I can shoot in the high 70's and low 80's which I am comfortable with. The lowest round I have had with my homemade swing was a 69 the week of my 68th birthday. I refer to may game as being bipolar. I do not spend much time on the range, but do have may coach watch me when I warm up before our rounds and that has really helped. Playing three to four times a week can get one into a good rhythm. Am finally starting to make better contact with golf ball for a sweeper. Picked a new set of T300s in early release period and getting distances dialed in. These clubs are very forgiving and my fitter did a good job with getting me the right shafts R300s. Have my distances dialed in on all my other clubs. You know the saying that practice can be overrated. Guess I am in the same frame of mind with Allen, regarding practicing on the course. Can't hit over trees, or a slight draw, or a smooth fade at a target on the range. I prefer to see it hit a green or to the layup target I am at. Helps me manage my game better and therefore score better. Just sayin'. With respect to all opinions.