This has been an ongoing problem for years and years. Because of the difficulty and small margin for error in this game, many are looking for the biggest edge they can get. I once played in a Member-Guest at my club. My guest was a legitimate 8. For the first match the opposing guest claimed to be an 18. My guest shot an even par 36. The opposing guest was hitting greens and making putts like crazy. He even chipped in from the one green that he missed. My guest received no strokes because of the differential and needless to say we got waxed. I never played in club events since. What's the point if you're playing with win at all cost type people. I have to laugh when I see some of the scores of the championship flight of the Club Championship where you have to play the ball down and putt everything out. some of these alleged 9's and 10's are throwing up 91's and more. I'm sorry but I just don't trust handicaps.

I have never met a real 15 who can shoot -1 on any course- I don't think it's possible.

Although, I knew a guy who played with us for a year or so who held a 10 handicap who shot two over (74) on our course. A 6,629 yards from the white tees, 127/71.3. It was the only time he was able to do that. It got to him and started to chase it without guidance, and the poor guy just went to pieces after a year, left the club and golf all together.

Without knowing their previous playing background I cannot say. But it seems as a norm to be truly unlikely they could even shoot even par.

But for a 15 to shoot under par, that I would like to see in person because a true 15 would really be playing well that round.

I do play with a gentleman 5-10 times a year that was a 1 hdcp golfer until he got too busy with work the last 8 years and now he is at a 8-10 I'd say, but he only gets out maybe 10-15 times a year instead of 40+ when he was a near scratch golfer.

Once again though another reason to be picky about the event to play in, we have a city 4 ball tournament at the start of the season. 2 man event best score. 2 weekends over 4 courses (1 each day) 3rd flight still takes under par to finish in the money at times (top 3 per flight)???? Yet several times those players that win the 3rd flight are 12+ hdcpers.

I quit playing in it years ago....

DM

Reading these posts reminds to not play in events that encourage cheaters. I have passed on events that would be enjoyable the sole reason of cheaters. Too bad.

I agree with others that have stated stances as hard in general terms that a 15 hdcp can't break par. What is the 15's playing background? Were they solid player years ago and only play a hand full of rounds now? What type of course are they playing, a tough course would make the legit 15 hdcp an even less likely candidate to shoot par or better? Easier course or shorter course would not be as difficult but still not great bet to break par either.

I think anyone can get hot on any given day and if their putter is working well then their score could be much better than their average. In the best year of my playing career, the only year I've ever played over 50 rounds, I started the year having not broke 81. Played a 7000 yard course from the tips all summer, broke 80 with a 79 and started to gain confidence. Played a 6000 yard course that I grew up learning the game on and shot my best round ever that day of 69 on par 70. Would that have happened before I was used to playing a much longer course, much less likely, but you also never know what someone is going to do when put into a moment they are not used to being in because of their lack of experience. Most will fold but some will thrive. Still currently 5 shots better than I've ever shot on that course to this day.

I think if the event has more than one day the chance of the 15 hdcp player staying hot will be a lower probability as well. The hardest course I've ever played would be a 7465 yard course from the tips, rated 76.5, slope 146 at Kampen Course @ Birck Boilermaker Golf Complex in West Lafayette, IN. This course I would give that 15 hdcp very close to 0% chance of breaking par. Pete Dye has a very good ability of making good players feel pretty bad about things and 15 hdcp players want to retire. Ha.

I've played in an event that allows 1 pro per team and minimum 15 hdcp for the other 3 players. Other team keeps your team's score and it's a best ball scramble. Only event I've played in that has a legit feel to it every time. 2 man scramble is good also as other team keeps your score and only 2 chances from each best location so brings more legitimacy to the event it seems. I always like hearing about formats that encourage honest fun and competition. Good topic and sorry for the ramble

15 handicap so call it 13 index shooting(-1) Presumably on a decent 6600+ yd course? Not sure it’s statistically possible.

This fall, I played in a mem/guest this fall where my partner and I are in the 4.0-6.5 range against a .5 and an 11.
Twice in our 9hole match did the 11 hit it into the hazard off the tee, drops and hits his third inside two feet and makes 4 NET 3.
Fool me once...

If I come across someone who says they are a 24 handicapper and they want to play for something, I ask to see their GHIN card. Most do not have one. I played in a club tournament for employees against a female who I had to give her way to many strokes in match play. I played at a 10 legit handicap and they gave her a 32 handicap. She told them she only played once or twice a month, but failed to mentioned that she normally shot in the low 40s on the back nine. I managed to play her to a draw for 18 and beat her on the 19th in a playoff. That was the toughest match play I was ever involved in. She had finished off all her other opponents by the 15th hole. Fortunately she was down six at the turn. She did indeed shoot 40 on the back nine and with the two strokes on the par fives on the back nine my pars meant nothing. When the match was over I extended my hand to say good match and her response, was I should have beaten you. Trying to be polite, my response was not really, you did not have a true handicap for what you shot on the back nine. I enjoyed playing with you and you brought out the best in my game. Thank you. Now let's go have a beer, on me. With the new handicapping system coming into effective January 1st, do not know if that will help or hurt sandbagging. Handicaps will be effective immediately and last eight scores. But for those who do not post low scores, no way to stop that. Cheaters will be cheaters, that will go on forever. And NO, a LEGITIMATE 23 handicapper will not shoot one under par. A 23 handicapper normally shoots between 95 and 100. You figure the odds. You have better odds of winning the lottery. When I was a solid 10, I shot a 69 once and that was the first time I ever shot under par and that was from the senior tees. With respect to all opinions.

I could see it possibly happening, but I would be pretty ticked...

Everyone has a really good round in them occasionally, especially if you get in the zone and keep this simple

A true 15 does not shoot 1 under except in his dreams. No matter how great a round he has. My index is 5.1 and has been as low as 4.9. I play a 138 slope rated home course. I play between 150 and 200 rounds per year, so I give myself plenty of opportunities to have a good round, purely by playing a lot. I have never broken par. In fact, I have never even sniffed it. In over 700 rounds over the last 4 years (85-90% at my own difficult club), I have one 74, a couple handfuls of 75s and 76s, many 77s 78s, 79s, and 80+s. I have had some real special rounds where it looks possible to break par after the front nine or even well into the back nine, but doing so is a different story. One of these days it might happen, but I don't believe it can happen to a true 15 capper, ESPECIALLY in tournament play.

No shot Rick! I with you on this brother.

It's possible as the handicap is related to the course rating/slope and par was not considered in establishing a handicap. Handicap Index gives you your handicap for the course you are playing. The new world Handicaping system takes par into the equation so it should help somewhat but with that being said you cannot make anyone have Integrity.

SEMPER FI

In our 9 hole league, we end our season with a Turkey Shoot which we had the Sunday before Thanksgiving. Format is point quota, individual and team.It's A-B-C-D.
I was the A player; I ended up plus 2 making 17 points. Our D player who had to make 7 points, made 17 and was plus 10! He had a whip in birdie from 30 yards out, and also made a couple really long par putts.Needless to say a few eyebrows were raised as we had drinks afterward.That said, that was a career round for that guy.

So I guess anythings possible....

I am a senior and play the senior tees at our local muni. My current handicap is 11.6. So you would say I should shoot about 83-86. Happens. The senior tees are rated at 66.5/119 and that is what my handicap is based on. So based on that I should shoot 77-80. Happens. Now when I go to my brother in laws course they plug in my handicap to their GHIN system and it gives them a true handicap rating so I can play in their games and it is fair to all. I always carry my card but any course can bring up a handicap. So when I go to harder course that have ratings in the mid to upper 130s, I will shoot in the mid to upper 80s, but I still will have a birdie or two during the round. I normally play to my handicap, all depends on the slope of the course. We have a points game every M/W/F and handicap has nothing to do with the points. You have to play three times to determine your points for a first timer to the game. Your points are maintained by the committee. Each match is adjusted each time you play and your points can go up are down. Seems to work out, more so for a higher handicapper which most of the players in the group are. The better players which have to pull 50-60 points can have a problem winning.
Their best bet is to win the close ups. It is tough to stick a nine iron three feet from 130 and get beat out by someone who hits a hybrid.......guess they are right, it is not how far you hit, it where you hit it.... =)